The city council wants to have a community conversation and dialogue (and we are going to give them one on October 14, 7 pm, at the Davis Police Department, where the Davis Vanguard and Civenergy will have a panel discussion, more details on Monday) on the downtown bar scene. I just worry that the conversation will be dominated by people my age and older who do not have any use for the late night scene.
In addition to my concern that people who do not utilize or really understand a particular scene are using government to curtail the otherwise lawful activities of others, I worry about unintended consequences.
The Davis Enterprise in an editorial this weekend writes, “It was wise of the Davis City Council to step in immediately after the recent tragedy to order an emergency moratorium on any new bars.”
I continue to support the notion of added patrol officers, but I’m failing to see how that is likely to stop the activities we seem to fear. The editorial captures that fear, “If you’re letting in packs of out-of-towners with gang tattoos on their faces, that’s a problem. If you’re letting people in who’ve obviously had a head start on the night’s drinking, that’s a problem. If your patrons are running out to their cars to get a quick sip, that’s a problem.”
The editorial suggests, “If it takes pat-downs, wands and bag checks to keep people safe, that’s not too much to ask.” And I wonder if we aren’t continuing to overreact to a very bad tragedy in ways that the overall conditions do not seem to warrant.
But here is my bigger concern.
The Enterprise writes, “Beyond the moratorium, the council really needs to take a look at what kind of downtown we want. In the aftermath of the financial downturn, more and more retail spots converted to restaurants. And, in a crowded field, the restaurants rely more and more on alcohol sales.
“Blondies is the business most affected by the moratorium. Looking to expand from Vacaville into the old Little Prague spot on G Street, its plan is to be a pizza joint by day and, like KetMoRee, a nightclub after dark. We’re not short of pizza in this town, and we really have to wonder if we need the bachelorette parties and ‘hot yoga pants’ contests that seem to be Blondies’ stock in trade.”
They conclude, “We are at a crossroads here. Is downtown Davis going to become a regional party destination, or are we going to try to hold the line and keep it a safe, fun place for locals and students? It’s up to the council and the downtown businesses to chart the correct way forward.”
The reaction to this tragedy has me very concerned. Davis remains among the safest places in the country – and we are going to severely cut back on our liberties based on a single incident? The notable thing about looking at the list of calls for service at KetMoRee is that, while there were a lot of them, most of them were very minor.
When did we become a bunch of uptight residents who are apparently too sophisticated to allow the 20-something crowd to blow off some steam through a variety of activities in the late night scene? I agree that is a matter of what kind of downtown Davis is going to become, but I fear we become one that is unfriendly to the college crowd and made in the image of the 50-somethings and above, who make the majority of decisions in the city.
There is the danger of overreacting to a horrible tragedy. There is the potential for unintended consequences. While the Assistant Chief reports that drinking is down among UC Davis students, there is still a sizable population that drinks.
Making it less pleasant for young people to enjoy their evening in Davis will probably push many to leave town, while pushing others to simply buy their beer at the local markets and have parties and drink in their own residences – where Victorian rules of morality by the rest of the community don’t apply.
In the former case, we run the risk of young people, instead of being able to walk or take the bus or local taxis to get the downtown bar scene, climb into their cars, drive to Sacramento, drink heavily and then foolishly attempt to drive back.
We may solve a problem of downtown violence by increasing the likelihood and frequency of catastrophic accidents on the highway late at night.
On the other hand, it can be safer and easier for students to simply drink more at their own residences. In recent years we have made some headway in dealing with the inevitable confrontation between town and gown, by encouraging conversations between students and older residents regarding parties.
Shutting off the downtown bar scene or making it less appealing could well push the drinking back into the neighborhoods. And so we may end up with a cleaner downtown scene and a more messy local party scene.
I agree that we stand at a crossroads, but I fear those crossroads are marked with overreactions to a horrible tragedy which caused many to question the safety and to want to reconstruct the bubble. The reality is that crime is still very low in Davis, this remains a safe place to live, and we have a reasonable balance between safety and liberties in this community.
I think the conversations are necessary, and the Vanguard hopes to facilitate some of them, but the moratorium to me puts the focus on the wrong aspects of this. I think we can be safe without shutting down the scene that many enjoy.
—David M. Greenwald reporting
“Shutting off the downtown bar scene or making it less appealing could well push the drinking back into the neighborhoods. And so we may end up with a cleaner downtown scene and a more messy local party scene.”
This reminds me of a replay of all the problems of Picnic Day and the Whole Earth Festival. Because of assaults on private citizens (rapes in the case of the Whole Earth Festival), vomit and urination on public sidewalks and private property, and litter all over the place, measures were taken to keep Picnic Day under control. The discussions about the existing nightclubs in the downtown area of Davis is no different.
I ask again, how many murders have to happen before our city does something to ensure the safety of all citizens, including patrons/students in the nightclubs/bars? My purse is searched at movie theaters for weapons here in town, so why is it such a huge “intrusion on civil liberties” to do the same thing at the restaurant/bars turned nightclubs? I am virtually strip-searched and can be wanded at the airport, courthouse and other places, so what is the big deal with doing the same thing at restaurant/bars turned nightclubs here in town? I am not saying those are necessarily the solutions, but possibilities. I would want to know what has worked in other communities who have had similar problems.
Chico’s Pioneer Days were shut down, is my understanding, because they got too out of control. If the business establishments thought that closing down the nightclub scene was a very real possibility, perhaps these businesses would take a hard look at their own security measures and make sure to improve them. That murder happened inside KetMoRee, so that is where the discussion of solutions needs to start.
I would argue to stick one’s head in the sand, and pretend Davis is a “safe” place, when we know a murder has just taken place that might have been preventable, is in my view counterproductive and stupid. I think this city wants the night life in Davis to be a safe and enjoyable experience for students as well as citizens who live near the downtown. I don’t understand why the Vanguard would have objections to having the discussions, and try some techniques that have proven effective in other cities.
Just to add one more issue, I have heard from several business owners, that are disgusted with Picnic Day and the bar scene. Public urination, vomit and litter occurs on their property, yet their business in no way contributed to the problem. Many close down on Picnic Day altogether and forgo business that day. These same businesses have to help foot the bill for port-potties downtown, and they are infuriated about the whole mess. I would like to see the nightclubs/bars, if possible, be held financially responsible for the extra services that are required as a result of their activities – the extra police, EMT service, cleanup necessary. Holding the bars/nightclubs financially responsible for the problems they cause would go a long way to make them clean up their act, IMO. Just a thought…
“Making it less pleasant for young people to enjoy their evening in Davis will probably push many to leave town, while pushing others to simply buy their beer at the local markets and have parties and drink in their own residences – where Victorian rules of morality by the rest of the community don’t apply.”
A safer nightclub/bar scene might cause more students to come out and enjoy it. From anecdotal evidence from DavisWiki and Yelp, it appears many students, especially female, are staying away from the bar/nightclub scene where they feel unsafe, especially where the “creepers” hang out and the bartenders “ogle the female customers”.
Victorian rules of morality? Aren’t we judgmental! I don’t think anyone is asking girls to dress in blouses buttoned up to their chin, and not drink any alcohol for Pete’s sake! Just asking for a safer nightlife where no one has to be afraid of being knifed to death in a nightclub because the bouncer’s are not doing their job.
Talking about the attire of the young ladies, perhaps you should be clear about which ‘bouncers’ you are referring to, and how much of a ‘visible presence’ is appropriate. I have no problem with the visible presence of either. But(t) [yeah, another attire component], copious consumption of alcohol, in a party atmosphere, affects things [particularly if someone is already looking to ‘connect’]… some good, some not so much so.
So you are calling for a city ordinance to enforce a female dress code? I think you need to give up on this line of thinking.
Hanging on the wall of the men’s bathroom of a restaurant I went to last night are pictures of “scantily-clad” ladies of ill repute from around the turn of the 19th century. I was snickering because they were all mostly covered with clothing.
This prudish argument that the clothing women wear is causing moral decay and for men to behave badly has been with us forever. And it has forever been a fruitless pursuit.
Europeans and many other more progressive and older cultures have mostly shed this type of thinking. And I think they have many fewer bar murders per capita. I think you should drop this line and focus on something more productive.
Well, what the hey, let’s have strip clubs in town, where women wear nothing at all! Sheeeeesh! Lingerie parties where young ladies are encouraged to wear next to nothing in exchange for free drinks is asking for trouble. Also, what kind of message does that send to our students? Egads!
So we cannot expect these girls to use good judgment for what they wear and need to implement more dress code rules and punish the bars for it? Seems a bit of a sexist argument to me.
I am not calling for a dress code for girls, but I do think lingerie parties where girls are invited to wear next to nothing in exchange for free drinks is asking for trouble. And it wouldn’t not surprise me if the girls getting free drinks have to have sexy enough lingerie to get the free drinks – PJs would not suffice. Catch my drift?
There are yoga pant contests at bars now? I thought yoga pants where for 43 year old women like me who wear them to drop off their kids at school to give the impression that they are headed to the gym, covering up the truth that they don’t want to be bothered getting dressed in real clothes that early in the morning. I had no idea it was socially acceptable to wear them to bars now. I like this trend, I may never have to wear pants that have a button again.
A wealth of helpful hints and best practice suggestions may be found in this publication from NYC Police Department and the New York Nightlife Association. It will be helpful as Davis continues development of the Davis Regional After Dark Intoxication Park (DRADIP). The counterterrorism strategy section may or may not be applicable for a facility servicing the Sacramento Valley I-80 corridor.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_prevention/Best-Practices-Nightlife-2d-Ed-2011.pdf
This is great stuff! So many of the basic rules do not seem to have been followed by KetMoRee or Tres Hermanos, based on my research of DavisWiki and Yelp. Just in a brief perusal of the linked document:
SECURITY
3. Security guards should be trained in techniques to de-escalate potential violent encounters and difficult situations.
4. Establishment policy should mandate that security separate and remove all potentially violent patrons in a manner, consistent with the law, that is designed to prevent a continuation of violent activity inside or outside the club.
7. It is recommended that security guards be spread throughout the establishment and not just at the door.
11.Digital video of any unlawful conduct should be identified and provided to the NYPD when requested.
12.Identifying information on ejected and/or arrested patrons should be retained on a “banned list” database. These patrons should not be allowed subsequent re-entry.
13.It is recommended that properly working and maintained digital cameras be mounted in front of the establishment (both inside and outside), at all entry doors and outside the bathroom doors.
14.It is helpful to learn if all of these efforts are working. To that end, hire an independent security consultant to ensure club security and other laws and policies, including laws prohibiting sales to minors, are being adhered to.
15.Ensure that levels of lighting inside and outside the establishment are sufficient for observation by security.
16.All those awaiting admission should be placed in a line, not blocking the sidewalk. All individuals on admission lines should be informed that if they are not orderly, they will not be admitted. Individuals who will not be admitted should be encouraged to leave the area.
18.If metal detectors are used, every patron should get mag’ed in accordance with establishment policy. VIP’s, DJ’s, promoters, entourages, etc. should not receive special treatment and should likewise be mag’ed.
20.Spot checks of employees should be conducted to ensure compliance with establishment policies and applicable laws and rules, including integrity tests for false ID and underage sales.
INTOXICATION
22.Spot checks of employees should be conducted to ensure compliance with establishment policies and applicable laws and rules, including integrity tests for false ID and underage sales.
23.Ensure that all employees maintain continual awareness of the level of intoxication of patrons, as well as whether individuals are buying drinks for others who may have in fact been cut off.
24.Although a sexual assault may not occur within a nightlife establishment itself, management and employees can help to prevent their premises from being exploited by sexual predators, who may seek to take advantage of vulnerable patrons. Alcohol consumption can be a strong contributing factor to the loss of judgment and failure to perceive danger which can lead to a tragedy.
25.In a nightlife environment, certain patrons, primarily young females, are especially vulnerable to potential attackers who may present themselves as friendly, seeking to getting to know them, buying them drinks, or otherwise displaying romantic interest. A common scenario is for an attacker to initiate an interaction in the premises and then persuade or invite the victim to leave with him. Employees should be attuned to behavior that seems overly familiar, aggressive or seductive under the circumstances, especially if the potential victim is visibly intoxicated or seems to be impaired.
26.Establishment personnel should offer to call a vulnerable or impaired person a cab or otherwise watch as patrons leave, to see if they seem to be able to navigate safely. Security personnel at the door or maintaining order outside are well positioned to observe when patrons leave. Note that predators may seek to get victims drunk or drugged, encourage them to get some air, and then pull up in a car or hail a cab to take them away.
I support all of this. Make it so. I’m sure some of this is already so.
I’m sure most of it is NOT SO! Reason being anecdotal evidence from DavisWiki and Yelp. Hence the reason I picked out particular items that I very much doubt are being followed (don’t know for sure of course!).
“, it appears many students, especially female, are staying away from the bar/nightclub scene where they feel unsafe, especially where the “creepers” hang out and the bartenders “ogle the female customers”.” Then they don’t need your help, eh?
“…based on my research of DavisWiki and Yelp.”
” Reason being anecdotal evidence from DavisWiki and Yelp. Hence the reason I picked out particular items that I very much doubt are being followed (don’t know for sure of course!).”
Definitive and encyclopaedic, sources, to be certain, though nothing beats first hand knowledge.
Why not find a couple of tough friends with a good jackets and go see for yourself?
LOL.
;>)/
Hey, sounds like an interesting undercover (pardon the pun) operation!
What right does a business have to make people move along if they are disruptive while the very same business is blocking off part of the public sidewalk. I observed a Ket Mo bouncer beat the crap out of a citizen who refused to move along at the corner of 3rd and G. Cops did nothing about it. Where does the bouncer have the authority to tell a citizen that they have to move along and cross the street. The situation has gotten out of hand. Why don’t the cops to bar checks by going inside of the bars to see what is going on inside. I have never seen them go inside in the evening during my late night exploration to see what was going on downtown. I get having an outlet for the student population. I do not get creating a club scene that attracts thugs from out of town who then get drunk and start fights. I wonder what percentage of the nightclub related arrests are students and how many are individuals from out of town. Is it safe for an older high school student to go to a movie and ice cream or pizza afterwards now in this town?
All excellent points!
Thank you! 20-30 years ago, the police frequently walked through Mr. Bs and The Grad.
The citizen who was beaten by a bouncer should sue, if this is a correct recollection. But this is the type of lunacy that goes along with the :”nightclub scene”.
Are they hiding the crime statistics from us? The students population hasn’t tripled the past 20 years, and many of our students are serious nerds.. I mean students… who rarely party. Which leads me to believe that we are drawing a significant number of out of town party people. Is this our goal? And at what cost? (DUIs, crime, theft, vomit, graffiti?)
To create a social scene for Woodland, Dixon, West Sac, Pelican Bay?
To DanH: Sent the City Councilmembers a copy of the document you referenced, and gave you and the Vanguard credit. Excellent find, that I think will help the city find its way through this nightclub mess.
Thanks, Anon. You beat me to it. I hope the document is useful.
David
I think that you are making far too much of the reaction being about this single incident and ignoring that there has been a definite trend towards the increase in the kinds of drunkenness that leads to these kinds of behaviors over the past 4-5 years. Alan has previously posted on a number of specific events and just by the proximity of our homes to both Ket Mo Ree and Tres Hermanas, I can directly testify to the escalation in the levels of noise, wanderings through adjacent neighborhoods, and inebriation which leads to disinhibited behavior.
I also think that you make too much of an age related distinction in recreational preference. My children and their significant others, all in their early to mid thirties have rejected the night club scene as disgusting. None of them consider getting drunk to the point of throwing up, or losing your ability to discern where it is appropriate to urinate of defecate, or to the point where one cannot identify dangerous or aggressive sexual behavior or aggressive violent behavior before it starts as “fun”. I see in my clinic some of the adverse consequences of this kind of “fun”. I believe it is the job of adults, regardless of what decade of life that we happen to be in, to encourage members of our community to engage in behaviors that are not only fun and relaxing, but also safe.
Finally, I do not agree that a moratorium and serious consideration of what, if any steps, are warranted to improve safety is an infringement of our liberties. As individuals, we have no “right ” to enter a business establishment without regard to the regulations of the establishment. If we want to enter we have to abide by the regulations placed their for our safety, whether that is the age at which we can enter, the number of occupants that can be accommodated, and if we insist on carrying weapons, we should be willing to check them at the door. No liberty infringed. If we don’t want to abide by the rules, we can choose not to enter. As for infringement on the rights of businesses, I don’t see that either. Businesses operate under safety regulations all the time. There are fire codes and health inspections that must be passes in order to serve food. I do not see anything significantly different in sensible safety regulations also being applied. We may or may not need to be doing more. However, I see this as an excellent time to hold a conversation about whether there is more that could be done. I am proud of our city council for taking this on.
A “weapons check” right next to the coat check! That gave me a good laugh Tia, I’m sure you didn’t intend it, but the visual of Ketmo bouncers checking knives and guns was quite entertaining.
Tia: All excellent points, especially from someone who sees firsthand some of the results of the nightclub scene, as a neighbor and as a doctor.
Pedantic headline gripe: What “Law of Unintended Consequences”? Any action *can* have unintended consequences, but many don’t. If there’s a ruleset that predicts the occurrence of unintended consequences reliably enough to be ascribed ” law ” status, I’d be grateful if someone would point it out for me.
The headline would have been more concise and less confusing if it read simply “Beware of Unintended Consequences.” In my humbly pedantic opinion, of course.
Ok… the venue is a place where people go to drink and socialize.
Don’t recall even one indication, reported by PD or others, that either the victim or the assailant(s) had anything to drink, much less to the point of inebriation. Appears that there are a lot of presumptions being made.
“Don’t recall even one indication, reported by PD or others, that either the victim or the assailant(s) had anything to drink, much less to the point of inebriation. Appears that there are a lot of presumptions being made.”
Ya think?
http://media.tumblr.com/5dda99ef803f8e1d62e1101867d04d0a/tumblr_inline_n9n1anlVbm1sbrg32.gif
hpierce
I think that your statement is accurate. We certainly do not know about the degree of inebriation, if any, of any of those involved in this event. This does not change my perception of the problems that I see in my office or in my neighbor once the nightclub scene gets going. I repeat, I do not think that this isolated episode is the only reason for having this community discussion.
Your logic #ahem!# is amazing.
I do “utilize” the downtown late night scene. I go to live shows, eat, sing at the pianos. I don’t go into the dj night-clubs, but I can see the stark difference in the scene. One does not have to utilize a heroin den to know that it isn’t a healthy place to have in our society.
Dancing is lawful. Drunk driving, stabbing, running people over . . . not so much.
I am concerned about ignoring the consequences we are already suffering.
Which is a taxpayer subsidy for the benefit of alcohol related businesses.
Not a single incident, a single murder. There have been several other incidents leading up to this that you conveniently ignore, and if you count drunk driving, many many incidents. Drinking to excess is a pretty questionable value to hang the liberty hat upon.
Nice try. Not the whole scene, just the nightclubs.
Yeah, like we did with Picnic Day. So unfriendly to the college crowd. Or like Chico did with Pioneer Days. Funny, the problem at those, too, was out-of-towners, just like our nightclub scene. I have been pointing out for years the Little Friday is just a weekly reflection of Picnic Day excess, and now the average Davisite is starting to get it.
There is more danger is letting it slide.
Like a less stabby city.
Because nothing says “enjoy” like a night of drinking.
Victorian? Allow me to lock your chastity belt before you begin your evening, dear.
Because they don’t do that already? And what about all the out-of-towners who are definitely taking their cars back onto the highway after a night of drinking in Davis? They are not causing the same concern?
Horrors!
Speaking for Old East Davis, the nightclub scene downtown IS affecting our neighborhood. Drunks parking their cars on our streets to avoid police, tipped garbage cans, vandalism, occasional drunks crashing, noise. Let’s spread that love around town!
Alan, you did a masterful job in debunking almost every point in the Vanguard article! A knockout punch! Match is yours!
#LessStabbyCity
I think David is overreacting by saying we’re overreacting. He also has a short memory.
We had a stabbing on New Years Eve and one of the alleged criminals attempted to hit the victims with their car. I believe I also read a story last year or two of a knife fight in downtown Davis in broad daylight.
The commonplace, everyday carrying of weapons is a horrible thought to me.
That gang members might consider Davis their nighttime playground is unacceptable to me. I’d also prefer that Davis not become the next Chico, but with Blondies, KetMo 1.0 and 2.0, we seem to be on the way.
I don’t think the argument that we’re a safe city, and we only have a murder every year or every other year, holds water. We’ve seen a dramatic increase in violent crime which is unacceptable to the vast majority of citizens and students.
I say bring on well publicized DUI checkpoints for several weekends, add downtown foot patrols, and more mature management of the nightclub “scene”.
I would go one step farther – these businesses need to start paying the true costs of their activities. They need to pay for the extra police, EMT calls, cleanup of vomit/urine, not to mention the cost in quality of life to businesses and residents who live nearby.
Great point! Why not steam cleaners to clean the sidewalks the morning after?
Spot on!
David again ignores major issues while misdiagnosing the problems. Is this for political reasons?
1. I don’t want us to be “unfriendly” to students. I want us to deter criminal street gang members of the Nortenos, Sorenos, M13, Hells Angels, Crips, and such from coming to Davis to unleash their Neanderthal behavior – which we don’t need to over analyze.
2. “where Victorian rules of morality by the rest of the community” – I may be older, but I don’t think most students want to party with hardcore gang members. I don’t think most students want to fear getting knifed or shot on Friday or Saturday night.
3. FALSE: One incident. This was not “one incident”. There was a knifing on New Years Eve, and there have been other attacks with knives now that we have a larger, more “diverse” city. Is this what we really want?
4. All or Nothing thinking. David appears to communicate an all or nothing unspoken mindset, which I don’t accept. We could have semi frequent foot patrols near the bars, DUI checkpoints in the short term, we could discourage gang members and outsiders from coming to Davis for lingerie parties which may draw uncivilized outsiders (cancel them). These are just three examples. Students need no excuse to party. But lingerie parties bring in the knucklehead outsiders.
5. Unspoken: Blondies – Large? Blondies sounds like a large new boozefest downtown, and once the new owner tried to pass his business off as the new “Chuckie Cheese of Davis”, I know not to trust what he is telling us. Will we have scantily clad waitresses, wet t-shirt contests, lingerie parties, how much of this wild behavior can or will we condone? Deafening music that makes life miserable for downtown citizens? These are promos which will draw in a lot of out-of-towners.
6. Statistics. What percentage of crime is committed in Davis by out of towners? How much of the violent crime? I think it would be relevant to know and could effect how we craft policy.
Outstanding recap of the issues!
By the way, I’m with you about your assessment of Blondie’s – Large! We don’t need and shouldn’t want more trouble!
It sounds about the size of The Grad, maybe bigger. But the Grad has a large parking lot, and is by itself. Can you imagine the Grad downtown? !!!
It doesn’t sound promising to me. It sounds like an escalation as far as the size, the marketing promotions of Blondies, and their business practices in Vacaville. Three strikes in my book. We can’t handle what we have.
“1. I don’t want us to be “unfriendly” to students. I want us to deter criminal street gang members of the Nortenos, Sorenos, M13, Hells Angels, Crips, and such from coming to Davis to unleash their Neanderthal behavior – which we don’t need to over analyze.”
I think you’re creating a problem that does not exist in this community. A few years ago, the city of Davis police pulled out of the Yolo County gang task force in part because we just did not have a big enough gang problem to spare the personnel. We have been covering the Yolo County courts since 2010, it is exceedingly rare we see a gang case emanating from Davis. And a lot of the ones have seen are pretty sketchy in terms of actual gang activity.
On the one incident, this is one incident. You in fact, pointed to a second incident that occurred ten months ago. You are correct, there have been other attacks with knives, I remember one clearly from the spring of 2013, it was a 16 year old Davis high student who tortured and stabbed an elderly couple to death.
“4. All or Nothing thinking. David appears to communicate an all or nothing unspoken mindset, which I don’t accept. We could have semi frequent foot patrols near the bars, DUI checkpoints in the short term, we could discourage gang members and outsiders from coming to Davis for lingerie parties which may draw uncivilized outsiders (cancel them). These are just three examples. Students need no excuse to party. But lingerie parties bring in the knucklehead outsiders.”
You keep repeating the claim about the DUI check points, I have asked you repeatedly to cite evidence that those would be effective, you have declined to do so. Step on that or stop asserting it as a viable strategy.
hpierce: “Appears that there are a lot of presumptions being made.”
Biddlin: “Ya think?”
I think it is reasonable to ask where the bouncers were when the victim felt he had to come to the aid of his family members being assaulted? The victim essentially did the bouncer’s job to his detriment/death. So the question becomes, how many bouncers does KetMoRee have on a busy night? Do the bouncers make sure to wander around inside to keep things calm, or are they only stationed at the door and/or promote violence? Does KetMoRee have security cameras inside, and notices posted that security cameras are watching? Do the bouncers check for weapons? None of that has anything to do with alcohol and everything to do with common sense. Take a look at the document that DanH posted a link to, and you will see that there are many sensible approaches to promoting a safe nightclub environment. I don’t know if KetMoRee was negligent, but based on anecdotal evidence, it certainly raises serious questions that need to be investigated.
” I don’t know if KetMoRee was negligent,”
Don’t let that stop you from further tarring their name.
;>)/
I don’t think the issue is whether they were negligent. Bars have some special protections from civil damages although this case might be an exception. Still you might say negligence is a high bar.
On the other hand like a drivers license, a liquor license is a privilege not a right. The legal standard is “A disorderly house.” I think when someone is murdered with a knife its a prima fascie case that a level of disorder exists for the Alcoholic Beverage Control to go after the liquor license, something I fully expect to happen to deter other operators from letting their bars become disorderly houses too.
As for the objections to lingerie or yoga pants expressed here and in the Davis Enterprise I would suggest a good dose of Maca powder for all you sexagenarians. Hey, I thought it didn’t matter what she was wearing. I can hear the judge now, “I’m suspending the sentence because she was asking for it with those yoga pants that showed off her asanas.”
As for keeping the out of towers out of Davis there goes the university. I meet people from all over the state and world in Davis. I know many don’t like that they are here but you seem to forget that most people in Davis aren’t from Davis. Sure, you were only taking about the violent element bringing weapons. I agree let’s address the weapons.
Yes, the Davis Enterprise this morning indicated ABC is probably doing an investigation of KetMoRee. It will be interesting to see what the outcome is.
Sorry, but I think asking young girls to dress in lingerie in exchange for free drinks is inviting trouble.
I was told last week by Darren Pytel that ABC was doing an investigation of KetMoRee and that it is automatic based on the stabbing inside.
” I don’t know if KetMoRee was negligent,”
Don’t let that stop you from further tarring their name.”
How is asking completely reasonable questions the equivalent of “tarring their name” ?
Good question Tia!