| According to ASCII.jp, Masuda Hiromichi, the former executive director of Madhouse Studios, said that fansubs and the shift of the worldwide trend toward 3D anime have become the major obstacles for Japanese anime producers to establish a business model outside of Japan. 1. Even Naruto cannot make money The most successful case of exported anime has been Pocket Monster. It made huge sales in the early 2000s however most of the profits were from character goods and games. As for Naruto's case, the main merchandise is video media, but most people are just satisfied with watching free videos and never spend money on the DVDs. The popularity of Japanese anime has continued to rise, but overseas sales of anime in 2009 dropped by 51% compared to 2006. 2. Small-sized producers are helpless against fansubs It's impossible to carry out a thorough legal action against unauthorized streaming and file sharing. The yearly sales of a major Japanese anime company are almost equal to Walt Disney's yearly expenses on anti-piracy measures. 3. Cooperation with Crunchyroll didn't work well We did try to go along with fansub groups by making a contract with Crunchyroll. We had expected Crunchyroll to take actions against unauthorized sharing but they couldn't. They are also a small-sized company like us. Many of the titles are simply incompatible with the simulcast because the production of each TV episode usually completes just before the airing time in Japan. 4. "Fansub as free publicity" is unreal There is an idea that Japanese anime producers can take fansubs as free PR methods and can make money by selling goods instead of DVDs, however it's not such a simple business to sell official goods overseas. The license contracts and the establishment of the sales channels take more time and energy than the sales of video media do. In the meantime, pirated goods appear and dominate. Moreover, the goods market for the core-fan-oriented anime is way smaller than that of kids' anime. We have to rely on the video media business, which without a doubt conflicts with the free fansubs. 5. 2D anime is getting obsolete Hollywood has fully adopted 3D anime technology. The demand for 2D anime won't grow anymore. The mass-production of 3D anime is no match for the inefficient production of 2D anime. Source: ASCII |
NaruleachMar 28, 2011 4:18 PM
| I don't buy naruto, because most episodes suck hard. When the show finishes, I might buy the good ones. Before that happens though it has to be for sale where I live. Can't buy it if there is no place to buy it from. |
| Fansubs = anime in crisis? It's soo old... |
| The only thing I agree on is that 3D is overwhelming 2D |
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| i prefer official anime merchandise over DVDs/BD, I may not want to rewatch an anime again but I certainly will buy the soundtracks if I like the music and/or artist and if I like an anime, there's a 99-100 percent chance that there's a character I like so I want to buy goods of that specific character or characters. Also, the problem with finding Japanese complete collections of anime I like is a chore and most of the time the complete collection doesn't exist. As for 3D anime, someone is being seriously butthurt, there aren't that many 3D anime out there, I will get the OVA of Baby Princess though because like it's predecessor Sister Princess, I would be more likely to rewatch it. |
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| well just produced those worthy of purchase, people don't buy and just rely on torrents and such bec. the quality sucks and they'd be wasting their money for it, especially Naruto.,it's not even worth watching in 720p. (look at Kara no Kyoukai, it's a huge success even overseas,even though some say the blu-ray have "upscale" quality, the fact that people outside of Japan bought it meant that the people really liked the series and find the show worthy of purchase) anyways, hope the anime industry prolongs, i can't live w/o anime, though we don't buy DVDs and rely only on downloads but we buy anime character figures and such,straightly ordered from Japan, i think it does help w/ the franchise, even though a little ^^ |
| Simplistic beauty can't be appreciated by someone who looks for something grand in everything he watch. |
| That's quite a jump between years there. =/ |
| Usotsuki. |
| ... but I don't buy american DVDs or Japanese.. I don't like re-watching and they cost too much (Plus I do not want to pay for dubs). I would rather just quit anime, mostly. I think they need a different business model. . . Also, 3d is shit. |
| There is NO 3D anime. |
| Dropping fansubs = 90% of loss in oversea sales its like saying "You mudabiatches go learn some japanese" & the MadHouse managers is just pissed of because he lost his job ! but still i like madhouse |
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| I have over 100 volumes of manga in my apartment. DVD's and Blu-Ray's have a shit content-ratio when compared to manga, most adaptions suffer from bad animation quality, fillers, awful translations and other stuff I won't mention; also: In my country comic shops are rare. Still, the mentality of a lot of western anime fans disgust me; "I just wanna watch but don't pay XD" is the reason why we have the technical (!!!) problems. However, even a change of pirating policies can't prevent the fact that the industry hasn't enough law enforcing power and serious problems marketing their franchises in an changing Western television enviroment. I stick with buying manga, to all the "pirate only" idiots ot there: You should feel bad, it's because of you faggots that I can't get Yakitate!! Japan, Franken Fran and other good stuff in my country. |
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
| well they r having it tough but i agree that 3D has has overtaken 2D |
kuchitsu said: There is NO 3D anime. Not full length at the moment but the Shukufuku no Campanella Specials are in 3D. I mentioned Baby Princess but that's in June of this year and that's the only full length 3D anime we know of right now that has a definite release date. |
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dtshyk said: There is an idea that Japanese anime producers can take fansubs as free PR methods and can make money by selling goods instead of DVDs. The thing is that DVDs are pretty much "goods" as well. Apparently, even people from the industry don't realize that. There's only few people that would buy DVDs without seeing the anime first. Most people that buy DVDs are those who watched the anime in fansub and liked it a lot, and the rest are either those unaware of the existence of fansubs in the first place, or those who strongly believe that watching fansubs is bad and they may get caught. |
| 2Hoppy: yeah, I was too caterogical There is also Platonic Chain (24 episodes), if you can call it anime: http://myanimelist.net/anime/611/Platonic_Chain |
dtshyk said: LOL! 3. Cooperation with Crunchyroll didn't work well We did try to go along with fansub groups by making a contract with Crunchyroll. We had expected Crunchyroll to take actions against unauthorized sharing but they couldn't. That didn't work out, so what's next!? |
colddarkness said: Hoppy said: kuchitsu said: There is NO 3D anime. Not full length at the moment but the Shukufuku no Campanella Specials are in 3D. I mentioned Baby Princess but that's in June of this year and that's the only full length 3D anime we know of right now that has a definite release date. Since the statement mentioned Hollywood I think they were more referring to things like Pixar movies. Nope animation in general, that includes both US and Japanese animation. |
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| Yeah, yeah. Fansubs are killing anime, Napster's killing music. All these poor people now can only afford mansions with 20 bedrooms instead of 40. I support the industry, I buy DVDs and manga and figurines when I can. Fansubs get me interested in stuff, not the other way around. |
 |
| So how will they act? |
| I understand where he is coming from, but about point five...please keep that horrible 3D very, very far away from 2D anime, thank you. Protip: Less, but better shows. People actually buy quality stuff. |
| i would only buy the dvd if the anime was really worth the money and i'd rewatch it again in my life. bookstores that have manga in my country doesnt allow people to just enter and read. so i prefer buying the series that i love and enjoy. 3d anime? if you mean that using 3d is increasing in Hollywood it's because they produce HD awsome movies, i prefer 2d anime. i hate the 3d. rarely do i find 3d that is great and tolerable (like final fantasy) |
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| I'm guessing that by 3D anime, they actually mean CGI animation. I agree that CGI looks better and it does attrack more people than the obsolete 2D format but if the story is no good it doesn't matter if it's in 4D because very few people will actually watch it. What I think that is actually happening is that in these past few years anime's story, plot etc quality has decreased, and I think that this is one of the main reasons why the industry is suffering. It certainly is not the only one but I think that this one stands out more. |
| God be my witness, I would love to get the Bluray boxsets of my favorite shows but what's the point in ordering licensed shows from the US to Europe if the American companies put 9-12 eps per disc for awesome quarity. Not to mention I would have to get a bluray player from the US as well to "bypass" the bloody region coding. |
selective_yellow said: Also, 3d is shit. I have never seen a good 3D animation, only those crappy things i saw on TV and the Shukufuku no Campanella 3D episodes, which were horrible. |
| I prefer 2D over 3D anyday :| |
| By 3D anime they are mainly talking about the growing popularity of 3D animation overseas (the object of debate). I would agree with some points he makes, but the majority is simply excuses created to place blame. The fact of the matter is that without fansubs the popularity and distribution of anime information would be killed. As for the figure saying that there was a 51% drop in anime sales from 2006 to 2009... come on man, you can't take any sales figure comparing those years seriously. 2009 was in the middle of the global recession, of course anime sales would decrease... People were too busy paying for food and gas to buy anime. |
| in the end, its still hard to compete with "free" in all its forms. until they find a way to provide things that are interesting and that can simply cant be obtained freely, then they have a chance. so far most anti piracy measures that have been taken do not work, and haven't worked since the fall of napster. dvds are expensive and most viewers are broke or don't want to pay for them. back in the DBZ days i spent a great deal of money on dvd boxed sets and once i realized i only watched them once and payed 13$ a pop.....it was easy to see why free is better, even if its illegal. a new model that can compete with free is what is needed. but to figure it out....there's the rub. |
| Yeah, whatever. Srsly, thing with 3D seriously pisses me off, i can't imagine a futue with 3D only anime airing... |
| レッツゴー ED イケイケゴーゴー |
| Maybe if some better stuff got licensed in the US, I would spend my money on it. The only series I own on DVD are the complete collections of Boogiepop Phantom, Shigofumi and Kino's Journey. (I sold everything else I used to have). It'd also be nice if they did something about region locking. People would be less inclined to go to fansubs if they could find region-free official DVDs of the shows they like. |
seishi-sama said: dtshyk said: There is an idea that Japanese anime producers can take fansubs as free PR methods and can make money by selling goods instead of DVDs. The thing is that DVDs are pretty much "goods" as well. Apparently, even people from the industry don't realize that. There's only few people that would buy DVDs without seeing the anime first. Most people that buy DVDs are those who watched the anime in fansub and liked it a lot, and the rest are either those unaware of the existence of fansubs in the first place, or those who strongly believe that watching fansubs is bad and they may get caught. I definitely find this true for me but I'd love to know the actual percentage. Or even when the last time someone blindly bought something on dvd that they haven't watched before. Or even more difficult, the last time someone blindly bought an anime...and liked it. For me, that'd have to be...five entire years ago... Please don't force me to watch an anime that kills my eyes because it's trying to be 3D and I don't have a 3d TV. Hell, I don't even have an HDTV. |
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| Yeah right. The reason naruto doesn't sell is cause you'd have to spend a house to buy all the DVD's, cause that shit has like 500 episodes. Arguing it's somehow because of the fansubs is stupid. I'm not saying fansubs aren't harmful at all, I'm just saying that naruto is in NO way a point of comparisson. |
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| What's the point of even posting this, all you are going to get is people posting than someone that works in the actually industry can't understand the industry better than them, or people who crow and say they support the industry and look down on everyone else. It is an endless cycle, both sides think they know what is best, and to be honest, both sides are wrong. The problem is the extremes on both sides, and there is no one basically who grabs 2-5 shows a year, they either grab 100 shows or none. |
| My anime list |
DenjaX said: Leechers like me is guilty yet I will still continue streamin' and downloadin' XDD Thread = Owned |
TeamFortress2 said: I support the industry, I buy DVDs and manga and figurines when I can. Fansubs get me interested in stuff, not the other way around. Agreed. I think if funi and tachi would simulcast more in HD then fansubbing will go down. because there are actually those who care about quality and how fast they are released. if all the shows are released within a hour from japan in america in a 720p option. people would switch. unless their cheapskates. For me I want to see Magica, but where can I watch it legally....NO WHERE. I want to see this amazing show but it is no where too be seen. I want to see the sequels to my favorite anime. Where else can i find them if not fansubs? no other legal group is subbing them, its sad really. |
| How to Watch Naruto Without Filler (Complete): http://bit.ly/LncQif How to Watch Bleach Without Filler (Complete): http://bit.ly/y0UQTO |
| Without Fansubs, I never discovered Naruto and others animes for then buy their derivatives products and mangas. I'll still on DBZ or Saint Seiya. So, thanks Fansub! |
dtshyk said: According to ASCII.jp, the former executive director of Madhouse Studios, Masuda Hiromichi said the fansubs and the shift of the worldwide trend toward 3D anime have become the major obstacles for Japanese anime producers to establish a business model outside Japan. I claim BS. They've never fully tried to utilize the potential online distribution has. 1. Even Naruto cannot make money The most successful case of the exported anime was Pocket Monster. It had made huge sales in the early 2000's but most of the profits were from the character goods and the games. As for Naruto's case, the main merchandise are the video media. But most the people get satisfied with watching the free videos and never spend money on the DVD. The popularity of Japanese anime has still been rising but the overseas sales of anime in 2009 have dropped by 51% compared to 2006. If the DVDs aren't selling, maybe he should be looking at other sources than just fansubs. If I saw a show online that I didn't think was worth buying, then I wouldn't go out of my way to buy it. Vice versa, if I find a show enjoyable, I'd buy it, provided that I had the money and it got licensed. And anime being in decline is caused by more than just free distribution online. Last I checked, we've been in a financial crisis for most of the past 3 years and it'll take a while before we'll get out of that. However, with prices soaring and people being paid less, many won't have money left to buy luxury goods. 2. Small-sized producers are helpless against fansubs It's impossible to carry out a thorough legal action against unauthorized streaming and file sharing. The yearly sales of a Japanese major anime company are almost equal to Walt Disney's yearly expenses on anti-piracy measures. Not even big companies can't beat out fansubs. Even if they could trace some to a website, if a subber doesn't have a website, nor any other means of leaving a trail, it'll be hard for big companies to find and prosecute them. And even then, you'll have to deal with international laws to prosecute someone who's not from your own country. 3. Cooperation with Crunchyroll didn't work well We did try to go along with fansub groups by making a contract with Crunchyroll. We had expected Crunchyroll to take actions against unauthorized sharing but they couldn't. They are also small-sized company as we are. Many of the titles are simply incompatible with the simulcast because the production of each TV episode usually completes just before the airing time in Japan. That last is their problem, not that of CR. And if it can't be simulcasted, don't call it as such and air it at a later time. Problem solved. As for CR not being able to take out fansubs, like I said, that's virtually impossible with the way they're handling things now. Besides, would it truly be wise to eliminate ALL fansubs? I buy stuff when I know it's something I want. A mere trailer or short summary isn't gong to cut it, nor is an extensive review, as my taste might be very different from the reviewer, or the show's trailer might be deceptive, making me believe it's something it's not (ex: Madoka). Given that DVDs aren't cheap, I'd rather buy what I know is worth it and enjoy it for a long time than buy something and sell it the next day, because I don't like it. 4. "Fansub as free publicity" is unreal There is an idea that Japanese anime producers can take fansubs as free PR methods and can make money by selling goods instead of DVDs. But it's not a simple business to sell official goods overseas: the license contracts and the establishment of the sales channels take more time and energy than the sales of the video media. In the meantime, pirated goods appear and dominate. Moreover, the goods market of the core-fan-oriented anime is way smaller than that of kids anime. We have to rely on the video media business, which conflict with the free fansubs without a doubt. If your one specialty isn't enough, expand into other territories. It would make ore sense for them to invest more into merchandise as a whole, rather than just videos. And I have and will buy DVDs of shows that I like and have watched through fansubs. I just need to save up for when I do and that takes a while. it also leaves me with choices of which shows I want to pick up first and I can't possibly get them all, even if I wanted to. 5. 2D anime is getting obsolete Hollywood has fully adopted the 3D anime technology. The demand for the 2D anime won't grow anymore. The mass-production of 3D anime is no match for the inefficient production of 2D anime. I see a difference between 3D animation and 3D movies. 3D animation can be very good (Pixar seems to have mastered that to a T), but I still like my traditional (2D) animation. Plus, I'm not sure if 3D anime is worth watching right now. Bur even if it would be on the rise, if you follow along with the trend, why does it matter? I myself refuse to watch any 3D movie if there's not a 2D version as well, but you can't deny that it's very successful for Hollywood right now and aslong as they can cash in on the hype, all is good. And eventually, they'll probably find another cash cow. I don't see why anime studios can't do that too. On a side-note, didn't he rake in the most cash from the shows his company was involved with, being its manager back then (seeing as how most money flows to the top)? So why is he the one complaining if he's no longer involved with the industry? |
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dtshyk said: The popularity of Japanese anime has still been rising but the overseas sales of anime in 2009 have dropped by 51% compared to 2006. Small-sized producers are helpless against fansubs. Cooperation with Crunchyroll didn't work well. Speaking as a fansubber here, so my comment will be a bit biased, however I do purchase (both raw and licensed) anime and manga of the things I really like, cannot get via fansubs/scanlations or am a fan of. For the record, I don't fansub or rather, the shows that I fansub are not licensed. In the case for Naruto, I believe overseas sales have dropped due to the fillers and people's interests in the anime itself. I mean like, if the anime ended on a cliffhanger and the next episode was a filler, what are the chances that the viewer would NOT instead start reading the manga? This applies to Bleach and One Piece too. Also, the format or quality of the purchasable media also is a factor. Why are there no BDs of Naruto available yet? Naruto became wide-screen long ago, yet there are no 720p/1080p BDs for purchase. It's still DVDs... Heck, Detective Conan is available on BD. As for low-budget companies. I believe they should change their marketing tactics. Start with DVD/BD-only shows, then move to series' being televised. Otherwise, unless you have a deal with Crunchyroll, you'll be hammered by fansubs taking your market. Another method would be to air it on channels that are PPV or are not available locally; channels that need a subscription. This method won't always work to stop fansubs, if that's your concern, but it will surely slow them down. Thus, you won't lose that market. The downside: viewer-ship is significantly less. I'm not surprised cooperation with CR didn't work. If CR had the authority to take any legal action, I don't think it would. CR considers itself a "global" company and if it started suing people from a particular section of the world, those sued would argue why aren't the others involved. Kind of like the 1337 Funimation lawsuit that the judge overruled. GreyOtakuGirl said: Anime and 3D should be kept completely separate. No need to follow the ridiculous trends set by Hollywood films. I completely agree. At present, they cannot market this regardless. If its to even work, a majority of the viewers in Japan would have to have 3D compatible TVs/Monitors and those extra expensive spectacles no one wants to use. Not to mention, have a pretty large room because 3D is suggested to be viewed from a fair distance. All things majority of Japanese viewers of anime don't have. Anything that airs on TV should not be in 3D, however, 3D films and special screenings should be made much more. Autostereoscopy (used by Nintendo on the 3DS) isn't an option either. Autostereoscopy has major side effects when viewed long-term. Side effects such as nausea, headaches, dizziness, etc. "...3D... is not intended for use by children ages six and younger...possible harm to their vision." Stereoscopy has side effects too, but not as greater than Autostereoscopy. |
alchemist11Mar 28, 2011 11:18 AM
| Team Leader & Manager of ray=out. A non-profit independent Japanese and Chinese anime/manga translation and subtitle provider. http://rayout.org/ - Browse through our site to get to know us better. |
| I really dont like buying DVD of the episodes... 3 or 4 ep in a DVD... if ita a movie great. |
Numi said: Maybe if some better stuff got licensed in the US, I would spend my money on it. The only series I own on DVD are the complete collections of Boogiepop Phantom, Shigofumi and Kino's Journey. (I sold everything else I used to have). It'd also be nice if they did something about region locking. People would be less inclined to go to fansubs if they could find region-free official DVDs of the shows they like. Yeah, but there are no region free DVDs out there that are official is there?? I say they should just do away with this region coding BS so that way we won't feel like caged animals and spend more money on shit we don't need like another DVD player or PS2 just to play one little series or game on from a different region. Even then pirating would still continue as long as the internet itself exists. So the companies need to stop bitching and moaning and learn how to compete with fansubs by doing things like uploading episodes online for free with ad-support with the option to pay. |
"What has two arms, two legs, and is alive? Not your favorite character lol! xD" |
3D anime technology No such thing exists. |
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Blackiris said: 3D anime technology No such thing exists. AGREED....don't mix 2D and 3D...everyone knows 2D>3D Also, can someone get my Violin to play for this guy....SHUT THE FUCK UP, nobody cares. |
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