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Psymon_Stark · Jul 14, 2011

Hi everyone!
Last year I had some little extra time from university and I took some japanese language courses (from introductory to intermediate)...Now that I have a basic knowledge of grammar and vocabulary, I was thinkin about play some japanese games to improve it.

I was searching for some titles that I haven't played that have easy to understand japanese words and phrases, better with furigana or, at least, no difficult kanjis. I have all the consoles, except the ps3.

List your suggestions, GAF!

biocat · Jul 14, 2011

The recent Level 5 portable releases all have furigana. I would suggest a Prof. Layton, Ni no Kuni, or Danboru Senki.

hteng · Jul 14, 2011

omae wa mo shindeiru

try the Super Robot Wars/Taisen games, they are 100% japanese

Mik2121 · Jul 14, 2011

I believe the Zelda games for DS had furigana (I actually think you could touch on a Kanji to show how to read it?). They also don't have all that many complex words, and they are fun.

Good luck!. I improved my English A LOT when I first played The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. In Spain it got released in English with a translation booklet, so it made me have to read everything in English, search on the booklet for the translation, read it, and then continue playing. It made the game all that more... mysterious

DeliciousDoc · Jul 14, 2011

You could look into games accessible to all ages like zelda and pokemon. I recommend you get an electronic dictionary, especially if you are capable of correctly hand writing kanji (so the dictionary recognizes what you are trying to write). Most modern ones were inspired by the DS dictionary that used the bottom screen to write Kanji rather than looking by stem or stroke number.

If you are not very dexterous, you can use a website like denshi jisho, specifically, this section to look up words.

http://jisho.org/kanji/radicals/

My general advice is that the more you do it, the easier or more natural it gets. You get used to not understanding everything but getting the gist of it. Sometimes you will be wrong because you missed a key word though. When I don't feel I want to study too hard and enjoy myself more, I look up words that repeat themselves a lot if I don't know them.

My reading speed and skill has definitely improved from playing in Japanese.

Hasemo · Jul 14, 2011

I'm doing this thing myself and have been playing all I can in Japanese.

Mik2121 said:
I believe the Zelda games for DS had furigana (I actually think you could touch on a Kanji to show how to read it?). They also don't have all that many complex words, and they are fun.

This is the best game for beginners, as the stylus-over readings help a bunch.
I would stay away from Pokemon/Megaman games for the DS, as there's almost no kanji and reading through hiragana alone if your vocabulary isn't good enough can be a pain.

For me, Vesperia for the PS3 was the best, since almost all dialogues were read, so it wasn't that hard even with all the kanji.
You may also want to play some visual novels - they're text based and you have more than enough time to check the readings using zKanji, KanjiSonoMama for the DS or some other dictionary software.

Good luck!

Goldmund · Jul 14, 2011

DeliciousDoc said:
You could look into games accessible to all ages like zelda and pokemon. I recommend you get an electronic dictionary, especially if you are capable of correctly hand writing kanji (so the dictionary recognizes what you are trying to write). Most modern ones were inspired by the DS dictionary that used the bottom screen to write Kanji rather than looking by stem or stroke number.

If you are not very dexterous, you can use a website like denshi jisho, specifically, this section to look up words.

http://jisho.org/kanji/radicals/

My general advice is that the more you do it, the easier or more natural it gets. You get used to not understanding everything but getting the gist of it. Sometimes you will be wrong because you missed a key word though. When I don't feel I want to study too hard and enjoy myself more, I look up words that repeat themselves a lot if I don't know them.

My reading speed and skill has definitely improved from playing in Japanese.

I second this suggestion. It's getting the main speech patterns down that is the biggest obstacle for most, not mugging up on kanji.

StreetsAhead · Jul 14, 2011

The latest Pokemon games (Black/White) have the option for turning kanji on/off. Even on they stay away from the most complex stuff. Plus the structure of battle text is repetitive so it's easy to pick up names of attacks etc.

Curufinwe · Jul 14, 2011

This DS title isn't too bad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Japanese_Coach

I really need to resume playing it.

Lord Ghirahim · Jul 14, 2011

Post-TWW Zelda games.

Hasemo · Jul 14, 2011

Curufinwe said:
This DS title isn't too bad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Japanese_Coach

I really need to resume playing it.

I think that the methods from here are better than using those "My X Coach" games - those aren't that good tbh.

StreetsAhead · Jul 14, 2011

Keiician said:
I think that the methods from here are better than using those "My X Coach" games - those aren't that good tbh.

Your much better getting Japanese using some method of ajatt. Text books will only get you so far and are usually outdated at best, and wrong at worst. Go look at an English language text book for examples.

Ermac · Jul 14, 2011

Pokemon

Bomber Bob · Jul 14, 2011

Read easy books (in japanese of course)

you ll get more grammar and vocabulary

Aeana · Jul 14, 2011

biocat said:
The recent Level 5 portable releases all have furigana. I would suggest a Prof. Layton, Ni no Kuni, or Danboru Senki.

DQ9 also has this.

daviyoung · Jul 14, 2011

The Yakuza games are good for this.

Psymon_Stark · Jul 14, 2011

Mik2121 said:
I improved my English A LOT when I first played The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. In Spain it got released in English with a translation booklet, so it made me have to read everything in English, search on the booklet for the translation, read it, and then continue playing. It made the game all that more... mysterious

It's the same as me...I pratically learned english through games and movies/tv shows.
That's why I hoped to improve my japanese with this method, too.
I'll try the zelda games that I havent' played yet (or the gameboy ones that I played ages ago). I also have pokemon TCG for game boy color, which I haven't played yet...I'll give that one a try too

biocat · Jul 14, 2011

Stay away from Pokemon. It's too simple and reading mostly hiragana can actually make things more difficult.

vall03 · Jul 14, 2011

hmmm... since Ive been thinking on importing some games, what about Zwei or Brandish?

Aeana · Jul 14, 2011

biocat said:
Stay away from Pokemon. It's too simple and reading mostly hiragana can actually make things more difficult.

I agree. Hiragana-only games drive me nuts and I try to avoid them as much as possible. Made playing Mother 3 pretty annoying in particular.

StreetsAhead · Jul 14, 2011

biocat said:
Stay away from Pokemon. It's too simple and reading mostly hiragana can actually make things more difficult.

It's not that simple and Black and White allows for Kanji display of all text.

Besides, this:

I was searching for some titles that I haven't played that have easy to understand japanese words and phrases, better with furigana or, at least, no difficult kanjis.

Korigama · Jul 14, 2011

biocat said:
Stay away from Pokemon. It's too simple and reading mostly hiragana can actually make things more difficult.

I tried the Hiragana-only setting for Zero Mission and it made things much worse, so I also agree with this.

Aeana · Jul 14, 2011

StreetsAhead said:
It's not that simple and Black and White allows for Kanji display of all text.

Besides, this:

You aren't going to learn if you avoid stuff that's difficult, especially kanji. Furigana is the best solution for learning, because you still see the kanji but you can learn what the reading is at the same time. Playing a game entirely in hiragana does not help you learn to read Japanese.

Metroid Killer · Jul 14, 2011

I played Pokemon HeartGold in Japanese, simple Japanese yes, but hiragana hell as well. Looking forward playing one of the DS Zeldas in the future.

inner-G · Jul 14, 2011

Play somethin modern that has japanese dub + subs. (import?)

Sometimes it helps to hear it along with the text.

Also, My Japanese Coach for DS?

biocat · Jul 14, 2011

Aeana said:
You aren't going to learn if you avoid stuff that's difficult, especially kanji. Furigana is the best solution for learning, because you still see the kanji but you can learn what the reading is at the same time. Playing a game entirely in hiragana does not help you learn to read Japanese.

ハイタッチ！

StreetsAhead · Jul 14, 2011

Aeana said:
You aren't going to learn if you avoid stuff that's difficult, especially kanji. Furigana is the best solution for learning, because you still see the kanji but you can learn what the reading is at the same time. Playing a game entirely in hiragana does not help you learn to read Japanese.

Well that's an issue with his request, mostly.

I agree with furigana though, although you're almost better off finding a comic you like and reading that than dealing with a game, that way you're not under the same pressure to perform that games may need.

It helps with learning how to read hiragana, though. Japanese children go through that phase too, it doesn't seem to hurt them. That being said learning kanji isn't that difficult. It's perfectly possible to learn two or three thousand in a year or so. However, if the OP's personal goals don't need or want them/the 'difficult' ones, there's no obligation for him to learn them.

GorillaJu · Jul 14, 2011

If you want to improve basic Japanese, then just try to catch on to small / simple phrases from games with subtitles and lots of dialogue, like Yakuza. Of course, most Japanese you get in games isn't exactly common Japanese, but yea..

I know about 500-ish Kanji but when I'm studying I don't learn a damn thing if there's furigana above the kanji. My eyes just tend to go for the easiest path, which is to read everything in hiragana. I have to study it separately, but different strokes...

Aeana · Jul 14, 2011

StreetsAhead said:
Well that's an issue with his request, mostly.

I agree with furigana though, although you're almost better off finding a comic you like and reading that than dealing with a game, that way you're not under the same pressure to perform that games may need.

It helps with learning how to read hiragana, though. Japanese children go through that phase too, it doesn't seem to hurt them. That being said learning kanji isn't that difficult. It's perfectly possible to learn two or three thousand in a year or so (from personal experience). However, if the OP's personal goals don't need or want them/the 'difficult' ones, there's no obligation for him to learn them.

Adults learn language differently from children, though. In particular, Japanese children already understand the language intuitively before they begin to read. This is how I learned Japanese, too, so I can't relate my personal experiences with Japanese in particular, but I know lots of people who learned the language in adulthood and in general they find hiragana-only reading to be quite a detriment to their progress.

StreetsAhead · Jul 14, 2011

odd_morsel said:
Of course, most Japanese you get in games isn't exactly common Japanese, but yea..

There's no spoken dialogue, but if 'common' Japanese is important a game like Animal Crossing: City Folk would have a lot of those sort of words. Well, more common than some. And it comes in Kanji.

Aeana said:
Adults learn language differently from children, though. In particular, Japanese children already understand the language intuitively before they begin to read. This is how I learned Japanese, too, so I can't relate my personal experiences with Japanese in particular, but I know lots of people who learned the language in adulthood and in general they find hiragana-only reading to be quite a detriment to their progress.

Adults don't really learn that differently to children; its still neurons forming pathways, just that the study method/environment is usually different.

I actually agree with you. I don't like illiteracy in any language and I think kana-only or kana-heavy reading ultimately fosters laziness and/or a sense of complacency, particularly in learners from alphabet based languages, but if the OP is looking for only 'non difficult' kanji then I'm not going to argue with him.

Mistake · Jul 14, 2011

Aeana said:
Adults learn language differently from children, though. In particular, Japanese children already understand the language intuitively before they begin to read. This is how I learned Japanese, too, so I can't relate my personal experiences with Japanese in particular, but I know lots of people who learned the language in adulthood and in general they find hiragana-only reading to be quite a detriment to their progress.

That's interesting. I know both hiragana and katakana, but not really any kanji yet. I would much rather speak to people over skype then take this game route, because I learn a lot faster that way. And I was thinking on giving Mother 3 another run, but if it won't really help then I guess I won't.

StreetsAhead · Jul 14, 2011

Kreios said:
That's interesting. I know both hiragana and katakana, but not really any kanji yet. I would much rather speak to people over skype then take this game route, because I learn a lot faster that way. I was thinking on giving Mother 3 another run, but if it won't really help then I guess I won't.

Ultimately, just follow what is fun for you at the time. Skype because it's fun, not because it's helping your Japanese. Play Mother 3. If it's fun, keep playing. Stop when it stops being fun. Think of Japanese as the tool to help you keep enjoying the game(s) you want to play, not the end goal of self-enforced gaming.

Gentleman Jack · Jul 14, 2011

odd_morsel said:
If you want to improve basic Japanese, then just try to catch on to small / simple phrases from games with subtitles and lots of dialogue, like Yakuza. Of course, most Japanese you get in games isn't exactly common Japanese, but yea..

Yakuza in particular is packed with difficult Kanji and speech mannerisms that would get you punched in Tokyo.

I guess it's one way to learn Japanese, but I much prefer the 'import a game with spoken dialogue/japanese subtitles' suggestion from earlier. Even watching trailers of japanese games subtitled in Japanese will get you recognizing common inflected Kanji (mostly verbs). That said you really need sources of common, polite dialogue from games so that you don't end up picking bad habits that make you sound like a teenaged girl from Tokyo, or a hyper-aggressive gangster. Last game I played that had semi-regular conversational Japanese with subtitles was Catherine. Ignore Toby however, he talks like a retard.

Mistake · Jul 14, 2011

StreetsAhead said:
.

Well I'll always enjoy learning new words and such. But when I learn something new, I delve into it and don't come out for a month. I would much rather get a deeper understanding of the language first because it will make it easier on me to learn newer stuff. I'll get more satisfaction that way too

345triangle · Jul 14, 2011

i can understand about 90% of the japanese in something like mother 3, but i have to stop and think about it because it's a total pain in the ass to read due to the lack of kanji - kanji make japanese one of the fastest reading languages in the world, whereas without them the high level of homophony makes it one of the slowest. it's a shame, because otherwise the style would be great! i love the game anyway.

the two DS zeldas have the best interface for practicing kanji, hands down - just tap for the reading. ocarina on 3DS is working nicely too, because while it has furigana they're really low resolution so you only look at them when you need to.

anyway, the best overall game for practicing japanese is clearly love plus. you can play janken based on pronunciation and at one point literally have to whisper 「愛してる」 into the mic!

(that recommendation is only a half-joke; the dialogue, writing and acting are more "normal" than pretty much any other japanese game you'll find)

DeliciousDoc · Jul 14, 2011

Language learning theory is still in development but current theory suggests adult learners (12 plus are considered adults in this case) have more mental blocks that impede progress than children. Things like low tolerance for ambiguity, not understanding, looking like a fool. Adults also tend to analyze more what they say or write which can be good or bad but doesn't really apply in this case. Everyone needs what surrounds the language like high interest in culture to provide motivation.

If you want to read more about it, there are books you can get. I had to read Principles of language learning and teaching (ISBN 0-13-199128-0) and it was interesting if you are interested in the "meta" aspect. It's not specifically about Japanese but all language learning.

As far as kanji goes, it's up to you. Do what feels comfortable and what your personal goal is. Eventually you will have to learn how to read Kanji if you want to play the kind of games that don't get exported. You can spend a lot of time on the basics or challenge yourself early on. It's generally recommended that you can understand 75% of what you read to make good progress. Otherwise you need to stop too much to enjoy what you are reading. For kids in their native language, their reading level is determined by what they can correctly read at 90-95% rate (in Canada)... so take that as you will.

Psymon_Stark · Jul 14, 2011

To make things clear: when I said "no difficul kanjis" I meant strange, particular and not very used kanjis that I believe are found in adult oriented games, for example Yakuza. Of course I know that learning kanjis is the key point in mastering reading japanese, and that's what I want.

So my request is for game with useful kanjis and, if possibile, with furigana.

Also, like I believe you imagined, one reason I want to learn japanese is to enjoy all those games that were never translated (or fan-translated)...I just need a starting point XD

Desiato · Jul 14, 2011

Study instead of playing games, ya weeaboo.

Deleted member 17706 · Jul 14, 2011

Desiato said:
Study instead of playing games, ya weeaboo.

You can learn plenty from games, especially when it comes to language.

Desiato · Jul 14, 2011

Zefah said:
You can learn plenty from games, especially when it comes to language.

Vocabulary, sure. But basic Japanese, no. Stick to the handbooks for now.

.JayZii · Jul 14, 2011

Desiato said:
Vocabulary, sure. But basic Japanese, no. Stick to the handbooks for now.

Well it's not as if he has to do one or the other. Video games, movies, books and music are all great supplementary materials for studying a language.

Desiato · Jul 14, 2011

.JayZii said:
Well it's not as if he has to do one or the other. Video games, movies, books and music are all great supplementary materials for studying a language.

Exactly, but videogames shouldn't be the only motivation to study a language.

Also, I'm drunk, so don't mind me.

SMT · Jul 14, 2011

Maybe, if you have a good grasp of the language.

I would suggest taking a university course or something, manga is too tough, try some Hello Kitty (no joke), it's pretty simple and awesome stories ensue.

I was in your shoes once, in 6th grade.

Hasemo · Jul 14, 2011

Desiato said:
Exactly, but videogames shouldn't be the only motivation to study a language.

Also, I'm drunk, so don't mind me.

Any motivation for studying is ok as long as it works and actually makes you study.

Desiato · Jul 14, 2011

Keiician said:
Any motivation for studying is ok as long as it works and actually makes you study.

Studying a language is studying a culture. As much as I love games, they're not the Japanese culture. You'll get shunned as an otaku.µ

If you really like Japan on a profound level, fucking give it your all. If you just like videogames, stop embarrassing yourself. You're also representing other gaijins that are really doing their best. You'll just shun yourself as not just an otaku, but a gaijin otaku.

But even then, if you don't care, if you just like the language, go for it. Just don't think Japan is Akihabara.

Aeana · Jul 14, 2011

Desiato said:
Studying a language is studying a culture. As much as I love games, they're not the Japanese culture. You'll get shunned as an otaku.µ

If you really like Japan on a profound level, fucking give it your all. If you just like videogames, stop embarrassing yourself. You're also representing other gaijins that are really doing their best. You'll just shun yourself as not just an otaku, but a gaijin otaku.

But even then, if you don't care, if you just like the language, go for it. Just don't think Japan is Akihabara.

People learn languages for all kinds of different reasons, and none of them are wrong. Get off of your high horse.

.JayZii · Jul 14, 2011

I just wish Ni no Kuni wasn't $90, why must I be a poor college student?

Rpgmonkey · Jul 14, 2011

Desiato said:
Studying a language is studying a culture. As much as I love games, they're not the Japanese culture. You'll get shunned as an otaku.µ

If you really like Japan on a profound level, fucking give it your all. If you just like videogames, stop embarrassing yourself. You're also representing other gaijins that are really doing their best. You'll just shun yourself as not just an otaku, but a gaijin otaku.

But even then, if you don't care, if you just like the language, go for it. Just don't think Japan is Akihabara.

I think it can lead to you learning a lot about the culture though, even if it starts off from a basic hobby like games or manga.

Granted, when I started learning I already found the country and language really interesting, but as I studied more and saw more material in the language, I learned a few cool things about the culture that took the interest further.

angelfly · Jul 14, 2011

As for games I'd say the DS Zelda titles are great. Also the Boku no Natsuyasumi series is filled with easy to understand Japanese.

Desiato said:
Studying a language is studying a culture. As much as I love games, they're not the Japanese culture. You'll get shunned as an otaku.µ

If you really like Japan on a profound level, fucking give it your all. If you just like videogames, stop embarrassing yourself. You're also representing other gaijins that are really doing their best. You'll just shun yourself as not just an otaku, but a gaijin otaku.

But even then, if you don't care, if you just like the language, go for it. Just don't think Japan is Akihabara.

It's always amusing to see people telling someone they're reason for wanting to learn something is wrong but their own is correct. Different people have different motivations. Some people want to become doctors to help abetter the world others may do it because the pay is nice.

jk-mox · Jul 14, 2011

Cooking Mama will help you speak WANDAFURUUUUU Japanese.

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